They say a woman’s work is never done. And, it seems, neither is the work of a freelance government agent specializing in international anti-terrorism. Which is a good thing for fans of Jonathan Maberry’s iconic character Joe Ledger, who’s back for another adventure in Burn To Shine (paperback, Kindle, audiobook), the fourteenth Joe Ledger novel, and fourth since Joe joined the RTI.
In the following email interview, Maberry talks about what inspired and influenced Joe’s newest outing, as well as how it may be coming to TV thanks to a friend of John Wick.
For people who haven’t read any of the Joe Ledger novels, who is Joe, what does he do, and when and where are these stories set?
Joe Ledger is a good guy but not always a nice one. He’s a former Army Ranger, former Baltimore police detective, former U.S. government agent who works for Rogue Team International, a group of freelance trouble-shooters who go after terrorists who use cutting-edge science as weapons. Joe experienced some truly dreadful trauma as a teenager that left him bitter and psychologically-fractured. However, he’s learned how to use his damage, and he brings a lot to every fight: courage, a superb set of combat skills, investigation skills, and a deep empathy. He’s also a sarcastic pop culture nerd.
Next, what is the Rogue Team International subseries about, and when do they take place in relation to the mainline Joe Ledger novels, and especially the last one, 2018’s Deep Silence?
The Joe Ledger series never ended, despite what it says on some bookseller sites. Joe was with the Department of Military Sciences (DMS) for ten novels, but when his boss shuttered that group and decided to transition to international troubleshooting, he rebranded it as Rogue Team International (RTI). There are a lot of the same players throughout the entire series. So, by my count, Burn To Shine is the 14th Joe Ledger novel, and the 4th while he is a part of RTI.
Which brings us to the matter at hand: Burn To Shine. What happens to Joe in this book, and when does it take place in relation to the previous Rogue Team International novel, 2023’s Cave 13?
In Burn To Shine, Joe and his team are hunting for unregulated militia groups who are buying very dangerous bioweapons and bleeding-edge delivery systems for use in domestic terrorism in the USA.
At the same time, he encounters an old enemy of both the DMS and RTI, who has been mentoring another former enemy Joe thought he had killed.
The story is big in scope, with lots of action, humor, heartbreak, mystery, and some creepiness.
Where did you get the idea for Burn To Shine? What inspired it?
The novel is set in Pine Deep, the small Eastern Pennsylvania town I created for my first novels in what is known as the Pine Deep Trilogy [Ghost Road Blues, Dead Man’s Song, and Bad Moon Rising]. When you’re in Pine Deep, you can expect things to get weird. The town is based on New Hope, which is just north of Philly, where I grew up. The setting was there for me first because I’ve written some short stories in which Joe’s cases bring him to that place. But, I’ve been reading a lot about the proliferation of militia groups and some of what I’ve learned is disturbing. Some of these groups are great, adding a layer of security to rural towns where small sheriff’s departments often need help, especially in times of crisis. But there are other militia groups who cherry pick their way through the Second Amendment for reasons that are in no way contributory to the common welfare. People with cold minds, empty hearts, greed, and a need to prove their masculinity by obsession with guns.
I am not anti-gun, having carried one when I was a bodyguard, and I own a handgun now; but I loathe the ammo-sexual mentality where gun ownership matters far more than the lives of innocent people, and where guns are used to intimidate rather than to protect. I’m all for sensible gun ownership and common-freaking-sense. So, I used what I was reading about in the press and hearing about from friends in law enforcement and the military. That’s fertile ground for storytelling.
Burn To Shine involves bioweapons and people being used as what you call “disease bombs.” Is there a reason you went with bioweapons as opposed to more conventional explosives? I mean, I know there was that weird cold going around a few years ago, but I don’t know what ever happened with that…
I am a science junkie. One of my mentors — and perhaps my strongest single influence — was Richard Matheson. His novel I Am Legend is a biological outbreak story that leads to an apocalypse and then becomes a dystopian drama. The main character is a research scientist trying to find a cure for a bacteria that caused people to turn into vampires. Richard gave me a copy of that book for Christmas when I was thirteen. It was such a massive influence on me that I plunged deep into the science of diseases, and that lead my developing writer’s mind into bigger-ticket concepts such as weaponized pathogens of all kinds.
A second influence on me was my friendship with George Romero, the writer / director of Night Of The Living Dead, and creator of the zombie genre as we know it today. George and I spent a lot of hours discussing bioweapons and their potential for disaster.
When I began plotting what would be my fourth novel, Patient Zero, the first in the Joe Ledger series, I knew I wanted to go in that direction, so I combined elements from both Richard Matheson and George Romero into that first Ledger novel. I loved how it came out, and it seemed to resonate with a lot of readers.
Also, having studied journalism in college, I learned good research habits and have since developed a stable of experts in a wide variety of fields: medicine, research, genetics, the military, global politics, history, and so on. The more I read about these subjects, and the more I talk with experts, the more ideas spring to life in my imagination.
And, let’s face it, with governments rising and falling, political parties playing around with research safeguards, and wars everywhere, the threat of a bioweapon getting released is waaaay too likely. So, sure, these are cautionary tales as well.
The previous Joe Ledger novels were all espionage thrillers, though in the interview we did about Cave 13, you noted that, “There are some very strange elements to Cave 13, and yes, some touches of the supernatural,” which is why you call these novels “weird-science thrillers.” Is Burn To Shine a weird-science thriller, too?
My favorite kind of fiction — in books, comics, movies, and TV — is the collision of realistic science with elements of horror. Alien, Event Horizon, Underwater, Helix, The Rig, 28 Days Later, The Crazies…it’s a long list. So, since the first Ledger novel I’ve been adding occasional elements that might be supernatural. I often leave it up to the reader to decide what’s real and what’s not. So, this combination of edgy science, elements of horror, and overt strangeness is what I call “weird science thrillers.”
You mentioned Richard Matheson as an influence on Burn To Shine. Are there any other writers who had a big influence on this story, but maybe not on any of the previous Joe Ledger novels?
I mentioned that Richard Matheson and George Romero were key to my development as a storyteller, but it runs deeper than that.
Despite growing up dirt poor in an economically-depressed neighborhood in Philadelphia, I have been incredibly fortunate in terms of the writers I’ve met along the way. My middle-school librarian worked with several groups of professional writers and at age twelve took me to events where I met — and was later mentored by — such luminaries as Ray Bradbury, Isaac Asimov, Robert Bloch, Leigh Brackett, Sprague de Camp, Michael Moorcock, and others.
Since then, as I’ve grown my career, I’ve been a speaker and / or panelist at a lot of writers conferences and pop culture events. That’s where I met Romero. But I also met and became friends with some of the writers whose works I read long before I decided to be a novelist.
Joe R. Lansdale is a great example. He writes all across the genre landscape, has racked up a zillion awards, has had TV shows and movies, and has become a good friend. He even let me put his Hap and Leonard characters in Relentless. And my friend, F. Paul Wilson encouraged me to include his Repairman Jack character in Cave 13.
Other friends — Jeremy Robinson, Larry Correia, Stephen King, James Rollins, etc. — have all allowed me to namecheck their series characters as if they and Ledger are in the same world, just fighting different villains.
Burn To Shine also owes a great deal to writers of regional fiction, such as C.J. Box, James Lee Burke, Tony Hillerman, and others, because their novels taught me a lot about making “place” a character, which both deepens the reality of the story but also encourages an easier suspension of disbelief.
How about non-literary influences? Was Burn To Shine influenced by any movies, TV shows, or games?
Burn To Shine definitely the rise of excellent TV adaptations of action-oriented novel series such as Reacher, Joe Picket, Dark Winds, Jack Ryan, The Night Agent — each played a role, because they clarify the look of action fiction, while still retaining character development. I’m much more of a TV fan than a movie nut. Shows like From, Chapelwaite, Midnight Mass, Black Summer, The Walking Dead, and others also demonstrate an understanding of realistic characters in fantastical and often horrific settings. That has been an ongoing education, and again, it helped the sprawling drama that became Burn To Shine.
I mentioned the interview we did about Cave 13 earlier. One of the things we talked about in that interview was how the Joe Ledger and Rogue Team International novels were all stand-alone but connected stories. Given that, what do you think someone would get out of Burn To Shine if they’ve already read all the other books?
Like most of the books in the series, anyone can jump in without needing to have read the earlier entries. There’s always an open door. Whatever needs to be known from earlier books is briefly recapped. But the setting is new for the team, the characters get unique introductions in the book, and the book isn’t dependent on knowing anything. Basically, no homework required.
So…what a reader will get is a novel that deals with global and national politics — without any proselytizing for either party; relatable characters, and threats that are so realistic that…yeah…they’re scary.
There’s also an underlying sense of fun, because if it’s all grim all the time, it can get boring. It’s a good starter book for newbies to Ledger’s world; and it has surprises for long-time fans as well.
You also said in that interview that ABC had considered making a TV show, then Sony had the rights, and that, at the time, “…another company is making inquiries.” Did anything ever come of that company making inquiries?
A lot’s happened there. Chad Stahelski, the director of the John Wick movies, optioned the Ledger series for TV. And he’s included me in a lot of the development process. First thing he said to me when we met in his L.A. office was, “Look, I have no interest in making a Joe Ledger movie. I want to make a Joe Ledger TV show so we don’t lose the character development. Those characters are the show.” In the press release for the announcement, he said: “I really loved reading the Joe Ledger series. It’s an all-time epic action series with intrigue, suspense, and such engaging characters. As I read it, I could see the immediate cinematic potential. I’m excited to be working with Jonathan to turn it into a TV series.” And, yeah, we’re having a lot of fun.
So, if this show happens, who would you want them to cast as Joe?
Chad and I have been discussing casting, and it’s an ongoing conversation. One name that came up early is Gabriel Basso, who stars in The Night Agent, which are based on my buddy, Matthew Quirk’s excellent novels. He’d make a good Joe Ledger, but then again so would Justin Hartley [Tracker], Jensen Ackles [The Boys], Ryan Reynolds [Deadpool], and a slew of others.
A lot of it will come down to screen tests. We know these guys can act, and then can deliver both the action and the one-liners, but can they become Joe? That’s something Chad and I will find out as this development process unfolds.
Finally, if someone enjoys Burn To Shine, and they’ve already read the other Joe Ledger and Rogue Team International novels, what similar novel series of someone else’s would you suggest they check out?
For sure, the Sigma Force series by James Rollins, the Chess Team series by Jeremy Robinson, and the Repairman Jack and Adversary Cycle novels by F. Paul Wilson. Those books are rewarded to read and pretty badass.
